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March 01, 2006

Student debate of Prophet cartoons turns chaotic

IRVINE, Calif. (AP) -- A student panel discussion that included a display of the Prophet Muhammad cartoons descended into chaos, with one speaker calling Islam an "evil religion" and audience members nearly coming to blows. Organizers of Tuesday night's forum at the University of California, Irvine said they showed the cartoons as part of a larger debate on Islamic extremism.

But several hundred protesters, including members of the Muslim Student Union, argued the event was the equivalent of hate speech disguised as freedom of expression. Although there were numerous heated exchanges, no violence was reported. The panel, which included one Muslim speaker, was sponsored by the College Republicans and the United American Committee, a group that says it promotes awareness of internal threats facing America.

During the discussion in a nearly packed 424-seat campus auditorium, six cartoons were displayed: three depicting Muhammad and three anti-Semitic cartoons. The discussion got off to a contentious start with the Council on American-Islamic Relations -- an invited guest -- boycotting the event and calling the United American Committee a "fringe group."

Source: [MSNBC]

'Evil religion'

Tensions quickly escalated when the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, founder of the conservative Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny, said that Islam was an "evil religion" and that all Muslims hate America.

People repeatedly interrupted the talk and, at one point, campus police removed two men, one of them a Muslim, after they nearly came to blows. Later, panelists were cheered when they referred to Muslims as fascists and accused mainstream Muslim-American civil rights groups of being "cheerleaders for terror."

"I put out a call to Muslims in America: Put out a fatwa on (Osama) bin Laden, put out a fatwa on (Abu Musab) al-Zarqawi," said panelist Lee Kaplan, a UAC spokesman. "Support America in the war on terror."

Thousands of Muslims worldwide have protested, sometimes violently, after the cartoons were published in a Danish newspaper and in other European newspapers. Islam widely holds that representations of Muhammad are banned for fear they could lead to idolatry.

Osman Umarji, former president of the Muslim Student Union, equated the decision by the student panel to display the prophet drawings to the debasement of Jews in Germany before the Holocaust.

"The agenda is to spread Islamophobia and create hysteria against Muslims similar to what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany," said Umarji, an electrical engineer who graduated from Irvine last spring. "Freedom of speech has its limits."

First Amendment right

Brock Hill, vice president of the College Republicans, said his group had a First Amendment right to display the cartoons. "We're not going against Islam whatsoever," he said. "This is about free speech and the free marketplace of ideas."

Mohamed Eldessouky, 20, a criminology student who attended the discussion, said he was disappointed because he felt the panel and the audience were biased against Islam.

"I entered it with an open mind, but I thought it was totally biased. I thought the panelists would be more balanced. I think it did more harm than good," he said. Lauren Chramosta, 18, a freshman, said she didn't know much about Islam and attended hoping to learn more.

"It was helpful to listen to different views," she said. "But I think (the Muslim panelist) was shut down so many times that he didn't get a fair shake."

Posted at 03:48 PM in Cartoon rows, Religion | Permalink

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Comments

God have His way. He(God) do not require defence from human being, because all powerful Him.
He(God) who become our benefactor of mankind, is not us help Him (God), oke !!!

Why we look for its own truth, to each other quarrel?

make peaceful world.

Posted by: joyo | Mar 2, 2006 12:38:09 AM

How could you defend something as silly as killing and rioting over a cartoon. I'ts so ridiculous it's bizarre. This is beyond the imaginable. Muslims are the most illogical people imagineable, it's evident in every discussion I
ve seen online.

Posted by: baxter | Mar 3, 2006 4:11:47 PM

Laurene Chramosta didn't "enter with an open mind," that was her looking for some Islamic propaganda to cover the hole in her empty head.

It's always the same if you want a real good fight you have to go some where besides a college debate, but I bet can find one at any Islamic peace rally.

Oh!, I forgot those don't exist except as an oxymoron.

Posted by: crazyhorse | Mar 9, 2006 3:03:41 PM

this was a greatest mistake what danish did.
it may be because they do not know what islam is
and who is prophet mohamed.
if the publishers read the prophets biography they will understand that prophet mohamed was a purest mankind on earth.
the media is making islam as an evil religion.
islam actually is a religion of peace.
violience is not the way to oppose this situation.
we all will have to rise our voice and understand the other countries that islam is a religion of peace.
and what the danish newspaper said was they had the right to expression.
thatz absolutely wright, right to expression must be there but it must not harm any community or other people.
if the other religion respect islam , islam will also respect them.
and the terrorism can be avoided.

Posted by: rizwan | Mar 11, 2006 8:06:56 AM

A Muslim terrorist killed Mohatma Ghandi the most inoffensive man in our times , and for Islamic politics. The people of this world do not have time to waste on biographies of the phro[het, because what is more important to read is the contemporary information nearly every day in the news that Islamis people are killing innocent civilians by the thousands. Islam is far from a peaceful religion, and its people are far from being credible on the subject of their own demons that drive so many Muslims to even kill each other in the name of God!. The guiding doctrine of Islam is death to all men and especially all women who fail to submit totally to the collective will of that faith's theocratic leaders. Only obedience to the authority of a fanatic and archaic dogma allows one to survive in Islam, but all human inititive to individuallity id stiffled.

Posted by: crazyhorse | Mar 11, 2006 8:58:01 AM

Crazyhorse, I didn't know it was a Muslim terrorist that killed Mahatma Ghandi..they certainly run true to form don't they.... So much violence, so little regard for human life, even their own.... So easily orchestrated to do the evil of a twisted religious mindset.... Violence and vengence seems to be the glue that bonds them together, the catalyst that sends them to their catatonic, mindless, frenzy of ectasy.

Posted by: jaxter | Mar 11, 2006 1:19:28 PM

Just as a fact-check, it wasn’t a Muslim extremist who killed Gandhi. It was Nathuram Godse a HINDU extremist who thought Gandhi was becoming too friendly to the Muslims. You can Google it.

There are extremist on all sides.

Posted by: Moderate | Mar 11, 2006 5:54:19 PM

To Rizwan:
I honestly think many Muslims believe their religion to be a peaceful religion and the Prophet peaceful. Which tells me how much in the dark you are kept by your imams and teachers. One has only to read the Quran to see that it isn't so. Moh was a murderer, pedophile, and robber of caravans. He spread his religion by the sword and by fear. He condoned the killing of old men, old women, young mothers...in order to spread his popularity. Read your hadiths and the Quran before you repeat that tale about peaceful prophet and religion.

Posted by: blondeinarabia | Mar 13, 2006 5:53:10 AM

Oh damn
You caught me in a redhanded hurry there. I have done gone off historically/hysterically half cocked, and I humbly apologize for not getting my facts straight. Thanks for catching me fumbling with my dummy!.

Posted by: crazyhorse | Mar 13, 2006 12:19:03 PM

It's easy to point out someone else's error, but it takes a big man (or woman, or horse) to admit a mistake. You're an example to us all.

Posted by: Moderate | Mar 13, 2006 10:50:53 PM

Well there doesn't seem to be any let up of Moslem Idiocy, the news indicates they're performing true to form. You have to give them credit for consistancy.....Is there no champion of Islam.. no one willing to defend the faith, someone with some pearls of wisdom that will enlighten us and unveil the beauty within the Quaran?

Posted by: baxter | Mar 14, 2006 12:02:55 PM

There are extremists (and fanatics) on all sides.

"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject."
-Winston Churchill

Posted by: Moderate | Mar 15, 2006 12:33:15 AM

I would like to propose that there be created (by some person or persons)a new web site of Islamic aggression related reference links to act as a switchboard connecting any/all interested persons/researchers seeking a private informational base that is not a public forum situation. If there is such a web site already in existence would anyone who knows its particulars let me and others know the way to make contact with this site. I am speaking of a site limited to all information pertinent to overcoming the Islamic terror via sharing logistical and educational geopolitical data. With all available connections needed for Western population defensive/security augmentation, and not to include by intention any non-essential dogma or doctrine intended to further Islamic political ideology or its religious agenda. Ultimately this switchboard could act as a conduit for forming political unity and consensus between/amongst western citizens who are concerned that Islamic terror and violence has now become the paramount issue facing our culture and its populations.

Posted by: crazyhorse | Mar 15, 2006 5:12:23 AM

Moderate, we take note of all your quotes, but not much more, I'm sure you're moderate with respect to the "Honor Killing" customs practiced in Pakistan too. Now you can come back and say it's a rare instance when it occurs.....It never happens here in America... wonder why? I mean statistically speaking, why doesn't it happen here?.... You're a gutless thing..... prior to World War II, there were a lot of people like you in Europe that believed in pacivism...lol, I think history showed us what was the outcome.

Posted by: maxter | Mar 20, 2006 4:15:03 PM

what crap you speak maxter or whatever your name is. murder is all guises happens everywhere - yes, even good old America. and while of course it is madness to kill because of a cartoon, it would be no less mad to kill all Muslims - which you support. you can come out with loads of examples of Muslim violence - all of it is evil/bad/unacceptable etc etc - but i can come out with loads of examples of violence in other walks of life. i can come out with loads of examples in the marvel that is the USA. terrorism is a problem, but people like you gloss over the issue with putting all Muslims in that bracket - taking away any reason about the situation.

speaking of Iraq - the most number of innocent people killed there in the past 3 years has been done by American and British troops.

talking of Gandhi - the British abused Mahatma Gandhi and the Indian people of the time. that doesn't mean we're all responsible for it.

Posted by: TXT | Mar 20, 2006 5:31:32 PM

Dear _axter,

I'm not saying that the numbers are equal, just that (once again) there are extremists on all sides.

To that extent I think you're much better at proving my point than yours.

Posted by: Moderate | Mar 20, 2006 7:22:15 PM

as a gay Irish man living in England i've faced a lot of descrimination since moving here in the early 80s. it's now not as bad as it was then - either on the gay front or Irish front. but i chose to come to England, because it's a lot more liberal than back home. i could go back if i got fed up with people thinking i was IRA. but i didn't because they would've given me a bad time for being gay, not to mention it's more fun over here. if muslims can't hack what we had to hack, then maybe they should go back home. I'm not saying this kind of descrimination is right, it's just the way it goes with what's going on in the world. just like people looked at me sus with my Irish accent on the London tube in the 1980s, i can't now complain because I look at Muslims sus on the London tube. I've been beaten up once when flaunting my sexuality, i tend to keep shut up about it now. we're not all into mincing about camply in leather thongs, I play football, rugby and tennis. maybe Muslims would be better off keeping quiet about their religion and practice it in private because it would do them a lot better in the long run. if you believe Allah to be the judge, let Allah judge us all - not you.

Posted by: niall | Mar 21, 2006 10:25:18 AM

the biggest threat from Muslim terrrorists would be if they joined the British and American armed forces and used the weapons against us. look at the damage they did with passenger planes, imagine what they could do with fighter planes? Muslims should not be allowed in our armies. anyone remember the Muslim American soldier who killed some of his colleagues by throwing a grenade into their camp? that's just a warning of worse things that could happen. I'm not anti-Muslim nor do i have anything against normal Muslims, but we've got to be vigilant and not politically correct.

Posted by: YAYAYAYAYAYA | Mar 21, 2006 12:13:26 PM

The Afghanistan Islamic Sharia judges who have threatened President Hamid Karzi should be placed under arrest for promising to incite religious violence. Their condemnation of Abdur Rahman to death was basically imposed because he dared as a Christian convert from Islam to ask for a sharing of a traditional parental role in his Muslim daughter'd life. This Seditious behavior on the part of these and other fundementalist Islamic "judges" is a direct flawnting of Karzi's authority as the chief executive of Afghanistan, and such religious tyranny cannot be ignored and still maintain the proper authority of the Afghan presidency. What is the difference between such Sharia excesses than what boody insanity the Taliban regime of Islamic madmen imposed on any Afghanni who dared speak up for their human rights,freedom, and justice?

Posted by: crazyhorse | Mar 24, 2006 1:37:07 PM

The Islamic intelligence is at best case limited, imagine trying to compete or coexist in todays world, with the mindset and intelligence of people like txt.... Their logic and understanding is flawed, they raise their children on mindless subservience to Islamic law, a midieval religious text encouraging the spread of Islam by the sword.... They contribute nothing other then the issue of petroleum, they're redy to kill and riot over cartoons, their morals based on honor codes requiring the murder of their own children.

Posted by: maxter | Mar 24, 2006 2:23:09 PM

Maxter, so how do we stop the brainwashing of those young Muslims who become terrorists? are you aware that we are all suseptible to these kind of things. scary but true. see Derren Brown. the point is, we need to get rid of this mindset - your plans would only compound it further.

Oi, twat head - I'm not a Muslim.

Posted by: TXT | Mar 24, 2006 3:46:46 PM

well the logical treatment for a cancer is to exise or attack the tumor. It follows to reason that we should address the cancer, Islam, cut it out or attack it, at least enough to send it into remission, drive it underground. Contain it to the point that Islam is only practiced on the downlow. I don't know why I even talk to u txt, you're just a cretin.

Posted by: maxter | Mar 25, 2006 12:08:29 PM

Maxter - with your warped logic, your way of getting rid of the cancer would be to kill the patient - the cancer dies then too.

do you see what you're doing up here? you're not adding to the debate, you're turning it into an argument about you and your crap ideas.

this story up here - sounds like a 2 way riot.

the 'honour killing' story (I wish Americans would learn to spell) - the killer is evil, as are any killers.

the row over the cartoons - way over the top.


my iodine levels are just fine thanks.

Posted by: TXT | Mar 25, 2006 6:01:56 PM

George Bush's Policy in both Afghanistan and Iraq has been a publically stated effort to protect the helpless victims of regimes (Sadddam's and the Taliban's)of bloody tyranny, but in each of these countries rescued for "democracy" the oppressed people we support(the Shia or sunni majority)came down upon US military empowerment as the bloodiest of "official" tyrants themselves. Why has the US spent 200 billion (or more) dollars of the American tax payer's money and given the bloody sacrifice of over two thousand of our beloved sons to leave Sharia fanaticism of both branches of Islam in a top dog position to perpetuate Islamic religious
tyranny? there is obviously no truth/reality to the myth that George Bush has sworn to in stating a (his) goal for remaining in Iraq and Afghanistan as an effort to make America safer by reforming/destroying these two country's former dictatorial political systems, and giving western style constitutional freedoms to the poor "victimized" populations.

Our government had ample opportunity in Afghanistan to make sure that Sharia law would be reformed (by a proper constitution)to provide protection for all religious minorities and Afghan women, but from the current evidence on the Islamic killing ground of Sharia legal dominance the US has made no effective moral demands for constitutional mandates by the goverment and Islamic constituancy of Hamid Karzi. After the vast sacrifices our country had made to "free" those same victimized Afghani people The freedom of the Afghan political/religious victim has to now depend upon a case by case revue by the "national" community/interests of the secular west alliances.

In Iraq nobody in the Bush government mentioned at the onset of giving our blood and treasure to save the Shia victims of Saddam's ruthless policies that the shia would themselves get to decide that their dictatorial brand of Islam and sectarian tyranny would post US invasion get to destroy and oppress all other Iraqis in the light of their religious dogma, but that is how the Iraqi political/religious cooky has now "crumbled." It would seem that ultimately Iraq will face becoming three ethnic/religious states, and that means the US has payed a very very dear price to senslessly clone two of our fiercest Islamic enemy states Syria and Iran!.

There are two obvious truths that emerge from the scenarios of these quit different military campaigns. The first sad US domestic related truth is the lack of credibility and conviction dedicated by Mr. Bush to his promise of obtaining salvation/security for the US (and the Iraqi people), and the second equally dismal reality is that obviously both these two Islamic societie's/countrie's share a common cultural inability to ever escape tyranny from their own anachronistic theocracies!.
The most tragic irony (and contemporary US dilemma)is that even after the US population can plainy see that president Bush has been a foolish liar and political hypocrite in both of these foriegn policy disasters he is still holding America's feet right close to the Islamic fires of his former pet "democratization" now revealed as a blazing civil/sectarian war in Iraq and an Islamic theocracy potential standing united on each and every mid east front. George Bush needs to be called to task for this US venture into idiotic self delusion. It would seem to be grounds for his removal from office that he and his government alone contrived and manipulated into existence a military fiasco on two global fronts for no US benifit accept those Bush political/corporate backers who became war profiteers in the most depicably profitable sense. The entire Bush political/military team lead this nationally blind charge/agenda toward a truly global scale aggression that has in every way shown itself and its deceptions to have been contrary in the extreme to US national or rational interests.

It would seem to be George Bush's last refuge to say "If we fight the enemy over there, at least we aren't getting killed in the US by the terrorists." This dog don't hunt after any US citizen thinks for three years about the reality that we (our military sons and daughters) are being killed everyday in significant numbers in both Iraq and in Afghanistan. So what does the geographic location of our national's/soldier's death have to do with anything of moral,economic or strategic importance "president" Bush? nearly six thousand Americans have been violently killed in the last four years by radically militant Islam. What has this President done about it?
He has now killed over 50,000 innocent Iraqis, and he has not killed even a paltry one thousand Islamic fundementalist "terrorists" as culpable by their Al queda affiliation with the USA's 9-11 massacre operation team-that crew of assassins who contained not one Iraqi or Afghani national.
This president and his corporate coconspirators are pulling the national chain of this country while they flush down the middle east 200 billion badly needed US tax dollars , and this must be stopped befor we as a nation come face to face with a global/domestic nightmare we can't fix by impeachment.


Posted by: crazyhorse | Mar 26, 2006 2:43:57 PM

Baxter, well I was using the cancer comparison with terrorists inside Islam. so it can be used any way you like, but the problem with this cancer comparison is that cancer is diseased cells. Muslims are people. Islam and Muslims are intrinsicly (i never said i could spell) linked. you're the simpleton if you think it's that easy to get rid of the problem. anyway, I'm not comfortable with this cancer line of thought.

if i'm repeating myself, it's because you're repeating yourself.

I am quite sure that there are peaceful Muslims who follow Islam peacefully. I'm quite sure there are Muslims who are not interested in religion. I am quite sure there are Muslims who use Islam as an excuse for terrorism.

so 'oh wise one' what do you think is the answer? all you spout is hatred and murder. try something clever and sensible if you're so intelligent.

Posted by: TXT | Mar 27, 2006 4:49:32 PM

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